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Moving large rocks?
Posted by patclem z6/7 TN Nashville (My Page) on Mon, May 13, 02 at 17:59
I like the new forum, but couldn't find any talk about moving large rocks. I don't own a bulldozer either. We built a pond in the backyard, and unearthed a 1700 lb flat piece of limestone. The only way I could move it was to have a bobcat sit it uphill from the pond. From there, I pried one edge up with a wreck bar, and rolled it on logs to its final resting point.
Another idea I had was to build a skid/moving platform out of 4x4's, get the rock up on it, and use the straight edges of the 4x4's to roll on logs. That would make it easier than trying to roll just the rock on logs.
I also used a come-along to move some smaller ones short distances. And even smaller ones (<500lbs), I used a cart behind my garden tractor. With a stronger cart, I could probably haul bigger ones.
Someone else might have some ideas. I'm interested, and I'm sure others are too. How do you move big rocks? Any Egyptian pyramid builders out there?
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RE: Moving large rocks?
I imagine the rocks in TN are as big and heavy as they are here in Central Virginia along the front range of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Many of my rocks are Lovingston Granite -- said to be some of the hardest and oldest granite on the planet. I believe it. When we bought our farm, I knew that moving rocks had to become a labor of love. The very first thing I learned about moving big rocks is not to get in a hurry. Those rocks have been laying around a long, long time. And they'll be here a lot longer than me. So, I play by the rules of the rock and take my time. It may take me two or three years to move a segment of rock. Moving rocks is a great way to learn patience. Sometimes I envision that in moving rocks I'm being trained for the job I'll have for all of eternity.
In the last seven years I've become a lot smarter about moving big rocks. Of course there is always the tractor and front loader or Bobcat options or the local bulldozer. But my rocks were scattered along fields, around and behind buildings, some were foundation rocks put under old building 100+ years ago. Most often these locations are not easily accessible to machinery or I just need to move one or two rocks when clearing brush or thinning trees. Often, I just want to move a few rocks at a time, because moving rocks is not my idea of a good time. I enjoy building with stone, I just don't like moving them. Generally, the rocks I move weigh between 100-500 pounds. Anything much larger requires either two men and/or machinery.
I've learned to use gravity. If a rock can be rolled downhill to a flatter spot, I roll it. If it can be slid, I slide it -- sometimes using an inclined plane.
Getting a big rock dislodged from its hole can be difficult. If I can't remove it manually without breaking my back, I'll punch a hole in the dirt under it, put a heavy chain around it and pull it out with my pickup. Once a big rock is out of the ground, it is usually much easier to move than most people think.
Use a "diggin" bar. A long heavy digging bar or rod that is pointed on one end and flat on the other makes life much easier when trying to lift a large rock. I normally use a smaller rock as a fulcrum when trying to break a big rock free from it's hole.Loosen rocks from their location when the ground is soft. I think dry hard red clay is the glue that God put on earth to hold big rocks in place so that mortal men can't move them. Softened dirt after a rain makes rock removal easier.
Use a rock sled. This is probably my best tool. Old timers used to use rock sleds made from wood and pulled them with a team of horses or mules. The thing I don't like about sleds is that you have to lift or wrestle the rock(s) up onto the sled bed. To me, that's more work than is necessary. And, sleds with runners have the problem that sometimes the runners can get hung up on roots or whatever.
I bought an old truck hood (Chevrolet) from the local junk yard for $5.00, drilled a couple of holes in the front, inserted a couple of heavy duty eye hooks and flat washers and ended up with a nice flat rock sled that slides easily over the ground when pulled behind a pickup or small tractor.
I use a chain that is hooked onto the eye hooks of the sled and then through the clevis hitch or wrapped around the hitch ball on the truck. A frame mounted truck hitch is usually better than a bumper hitch. The best part of the using a truck-hood sled is that I don't have to pick the rock up off the ground in order to get it onto the sled. I just roll it on and off the sled. Sometimes I use the digging bar to scoot the rock on.
When the sled wears out, especially from dragging it over gravel, I just take it back to the junk yard and get another old truck hood. Another neat thing about using a truck-hood sled is that I can throw it on the back of my pickup with the other needed tools and drive to where I want to use it. No need to tear up a lot of real estate with heavy equipment in getting to the rock location. My truck has four-wheel drive. I couldn't move some of my rocks without the four-wheel drive capability because of where the rocks are located and where I want to move them.
What to do with the rocks you are moving. I sort my rocks as I'm moving them. I keep the flat and nice square building rocks and separate them by size into three different piles by size of the rocks. When I have enough to construct a wall, or foundtion, the piles are already sorted. The piles are a little unsightly while the rocks are being accumulated because I generally put the piles close to the construction site. Thus, the rock piles for the retaining wall behind the house look somewhat unsightly, but once the wall is built, the memory of the ugly rock pile will be gone and replaced by the beauty of a natural stone wall. The main idea here is to minimize the handling of big rocks. I try to only handle a big rock twice -- once getting it to the pile and once getting it to the wall. Going directly from the ground to the wall generally doesn't work.
I use unwanted rocks to help fill in old eroded ditches and to improve the banks of a couple of streams. The big rocks are a natural looking rip-rap for streams and blend right in. Sometimes I'll drop one or two into the stream bed and there is a nice immediate sound of babbling water. Another nice thing about a truck-hood sled is that the rocks can be rolled off the sled and into the ditch or stream with a modest amount of effort (usually).
Sometimes, I put too many rocks on my sled and they settle together when being moved in such a way that I can't easily separate them when I want to unload them. At such times, I have been known to drag the sled to the edge of a ditch and pull it with my truck in such a manner as to drop the sled, the rocks and all over the edge and into the ditch (or stream). Gravity then removes the rocks, the chain holds the sled, and I drive back to the collection point with an empty sled.
Getting big rocks up onto a trailer or the bed of a truck is another completely different level of effort. A small hydraulic hoist mounted onto the truck bed can be useful, but safety is always important when handling big rocks in such situations. Extended booms, centers of gravity, etc. all play important rolls when lifting big rocks higher than your knees. I apply the two-man rule when lifting big rocks onto trucks and walls. If a rock is bigger than two guys can handle, I either leave it on the ground or sled or call for lifting equipment.
Finally, there are some rocks that just shouldn't be moved. In my case there are some absolutely beautiful boulders nicely arranged next to each other down behind my barn. No chance they could ever be moved, because they are connected to the center of the earth. So, we "feature" them. In short, I made a place for some small trees, shrubs and flowers. People say, "Gee, that looks so natural." No kidding. And, I've been known to re-bury big rocks that can't be moved. Place a few loads of dirt back over the rock, plant the grass seed and mow right over that old rock.
Hope this long-winded description is helpful.
Thanks Edward, for the tips. I have just enough rocks around here to be dangerous. I was lucky enough to have a friend lift a 4 x 4 rock over our fence and place it oh-so-delicately in its appointed resting place. I have a few more scattered about (smaller) that I would like to reposition, so I'll give your suggestions some thought. Truck hood ... great idea, better than a truck dolly.
Wow, did I learn alot from your post. good ideas. My rocks are smaller. If I can't move'em, the weight lifting dh and buddy get drafted.
Wow. I really like the truck hood idea. Fantastic. Now, I wonder where I can store that truck hood so my neighbors don't think I'm a junk man. Ah, I can paint flowers on it, stand it on end and use it as "yard art"!
Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks for the post!
(-:
Any suggestions for getting rocks up steep hills? All my rocks are in a creek at the bottom of the hill. The incline is, maybe 30 degrees? There is no place to bring in a truck or even a tractor to pull them up the hill. I had to roll them a few feet, sit on them for awhile, drag them a few more feet, sit on them for awhile, you get the picture. It took me an hour to get some of them. Any ideas would be great.
Jean
Jean, When I first started moving big rocks up steep hills, my beloved wife thought I had more rocks in my head than I had on the ground. Of course, she was absolutely right!
The nicest rocks are always the ones in the most difficult spot to retrieve. I've moved tons of big rocks up steep hills. Some of them I could easily get up to level ground for placement onto my truck-hood sled. Many had to be handled differently. Getting them out of stream beds and creeks is always fun, because they are nice and slippery and messy.
Nylon strapping and very long cables or chains (25', 50', or 100')can help in some situations. If you have a big rock in a location that's hard to get to with the truck-hood sled then you might try this. Use nylon webbing about 1 1/2" - 2" wide and wrap the rock in the webbing. Make something like a nylon webbing sling that goes around the rock in several directions. It's best to have several pieces of webbing of various lengths, but two or three pieces 4'- 6' long will work for many rocks. The idea is to have the webbing come together in the same place so that a cable or chain can be connected to the webbing for pulling.
Heavy ropes can also be used for this sling approach, but I like nylon webbing. One of the main advantages of webbing or rope sling cradles is that the webbing and rope don't mar the rock surface like a chain or cable wrap. Webbing also helps retain the character, lichen, moss, etc. and doesn't damage the rockface. Also, webbing and rope slings don't usually slip off the rock quite as easily as cable and chain.
Someplace, I saw some small cargo slings that might work, but I never looked very hard for them. If the pieces of webbing you are using don't have hardware buckles and links, then you can tie them in square or slip knots. Learning to tie good and various kinds of knots is a useful skill in rock moving. Maybe you can find a local Boy Scout to help you move rocks and let him get some knot tying practice at the same time. Maybe the entire scout troop would be interested in being part of a project.
Once the rock is secured in the cradle, it's important to determine where the rock is going to go when it starts to move -- BEFORE IT IS MOVED. I always make sure I know which direction a rock will be moved when I start the pull.
This is important -- NOBODY STANDS DOWNHILL FROM A ROCK BEING MOVED UP A STEEP INCLINE, AND THIS MEANS NOT JUST IN THE PATH OF THE ROCK BUT NO PLACE BEHIND, BELOW, OR ADJACENT TO THE ROCK. Trust me on this. In rough terrain, when a chain, cable or webbing breaks, the direction of a bouncing, rolling large rock is totally unpredictable.
ALSO, NEVER EVER BUT NEVER STAND ASTRIDE OF A CABLE OR CHAIN WHEN IT IS UNDER TENSION OR STRESS. A CABLE OR CHAIN CAN BREAK WITH SUCH FORCE THAT IF A PERSON IS ASTRIDE THAT CABLE OR CHAIN, THE WHIPLASH FORCE FROM THE RELEASED TENSION CAN EASILY CUT THAT PERSON COMPLETELY IN HALF. MANY LUMBERMEN HAVE LOST ARMS, LEGS, AND LIVES BECAUSE OF BROKEN CABLES AND CHAINS. THERE IS NO TIME TO REACT TO SUCH EVENTS, JUST DON'T BE STUPID.
The path of the pull doesn't always have to be in a straight line. Sometimes the first pull is at an angle to where you ultimately want the rock. Sucessive pulls will end up placing the rock where you want it. Sometimes I use a conveniently located tree to help me change the direction of a pull.
In a cradle sling, the rock will sometimes ride up and over other rocks, and if all the major snags have been removed from the path of the pull, it will slide along the top of the ground. Don't get in a hurry. Once in a while, I will put a narrow piece of 3/4" plywood on the ground, put the rock on the plywood and pull both the plywood and rock out together. The plywood is about 2' wide and about 4" long, and when the rock is positioned toward the back of the plywood it acts something like a tobogan. The temporary plywood sled approach doesn't always work and is somewhat situation dependent.
Sometimes I put logs in front of the rock or plywood and pull the load up onto the logs, where I'm using the logs like conveyor rollers. Each year, I cut some trash trees in late winter (e.g. tree of heaven) that are about 6"-8" in diameter and 4' long. I keep a stack of them down in my work area. They make good rollers. When I'm finished with them for the season, they become firewood.
Long cables and chains allow you to position your truck or tractor some distance from the rock being pulled. Many times my truck is 100' - 200' away from the rock under pull and I basically snake the rock out of the woods. This situation is why trucks and tractors have low gears. Torque is important here, not speed. Getting a rock moving is usually the toughest part of the pull, unless it settles into a hole someplace enroute. Be prepared to use logs as little bridges to cross those places where a rock might try to resettle.
Winches on the front of trucks or tractors are useful in many of these situations, because you can see where the rock is going as it is being pulled. If you are pulling the rock "bind" up a steep incline or embankment where you cannot see it's path and direction of travel, then have someone act as a ground guide for you if possible. If you are working alone and making the pull by yourself, then I suggest pulling a few feet, stop, lock the brakes or shut down, check the rock's position, pull a few more feet and check again. Continue this approach until the rock is in a stable location or hopefully where you want it.
Hope this helps.
Ed
Jean, I'm not much of a typist. I meant a piece of plywood 2'X 4' and "blind" not "bind."
Something else I wanted to mention. Retrieving rocks from stream beds can be very hazardous. A wet rock slides very easily on other wet rocks and on wet gravel. Feet and toes are especially prone to injury in stream beds. It is very easy to twist an ankle in wet environments. Big rocks smash toes and fingers with no problem. DO NOT WEAR TENNIS SHOES OR SANDALS WHEN MOVING BIG ROCKS IN WET STREAM BEDS. Tennis shoes and sandals offer no protection of any kind. Neither do overshoes or hip waders. If you are going to move big rocks out of a wet stream bed, first put on a pair of "steel toed" rubber soled work boots that are high up on the ankle. A pair of overboots might be useful, but be careful not to get water inside the overshoe or you will find yourself trying to lift 30 lbs of water with every step and that becomes unstable. Every trout fisherman I know will tell you how dangerous it is to walk on wet rocks and I mean those rocks that are submerged, not the ones you can see or work on.
One trick I've used is to save an old pair of steel-toe work boots and cut 2"-3" slits along the instep on each boot just above the sole. This allows the water to flow around the foot, but drains out when you step out of the water, so you aren't walking around squishing with every step. When I did this, I always carried an extra pair of boots, dry socks, and a towel in the truck.
Ed
Is there any safe place to stand while using a hand winch or "come along" to move large rocks? Rob
Bob, I tend not to use either a hand winch or a "come along" to move large rocks. I use a "come along" once in a while for moving small logs or stuck trailers, but for me, it is something of an issue of maintaining control of the pull under load. Also, I find a "come along" somewhat small when attempting to move big rocks. My "come along" uses a ratchet design, as do some hand winches. I had a "come along" ratchet unexpectedly slip under load one time and tell you that it will definitely make you move quickly.
If I were to use either a "come along" or hand winch in a field situation, I'd probably anchor the "come along" to a tree and try to have a tree between me and the cable or chain. If I anchored a "come along" to a hitch, I'd still want something like a tree or vehicle between me and the cable. Most "come alongs" I've seen have fairly short cables, but are of course hooked to longer cables or chains and the point of the connection between the "come along" cable and work cable must be as strong as the cables or chains being used.
I find a "come along" useful for moving some things like wheeled items, skidding timbers short distances, pulling something into alignment, or sliding heavy boxes, but not for moving big heavy rocks. Also, I've found "come alongs" to be more labor intensive for me than some other approaches I use.
You might be more adept at using a "come along" or hand winch than me. Personally, I'm just not comfortable having my hands, face, and body directly aligned with a cable tensioned under an unknown load force that is only held in place by a small geared ratchet and handle. In my old age I just know what has safely worked for me in my situations.
Ed
- Posted by: Fireraven9 z5 New Mexico (My Page) on Wed, May 15, 02 at 13:45
You are right about using the come-along for smaller rocks only. It would not be safe for large rocks ... even the heavy duty come-along I use to get my car out of the mud. May we use your directions as a part of the FAQ question about moving rocks? Fireraven9
What potent blood hath modest May. - Ralph W. Emerson
Ed, My husband also thought I was nuts - and since he was recovering from a broken hip and he couldn't help other than to stand at the top of the hill and shake his head and worry. I learned the best time of day for rock scavenging was when he wasn't here.
I did try to use my cargo net from my car but it stretched so bad I was afraid it wasn't going to be heavy enough. I ended up using pieces of nylon rope, tied like you suggested in a sling. Also, I found that if I wrapped a heavy plastic tarp around it after securing it in a sling, that it would slide easier. I considered using a piece of wood but couldn't figure out a way to keep the rock on the wood. Maybe I need to practice some knot tying .
Using the logs as rollers is an interesting idea and has me thinking that might allow me to get some of the bigger rocks up the hill.
Unfortunately I cannot use a truck or tractor because I am on a steep ridge that is heavily wooded so there is no way to get a vehicle anywhere close. I tried with my lawn tractor and got it stuck in a small clearing, had to back out or try to turn it around on the slope - I still shudder when I think of that dumb move. Again, I did it when my husband wasn't here and to this date he doesn't know I tried.
I have lost a few run away rocks down the hill, there's not much you can do but stand there and watch it bounce down the hill and land further away than where it started - two steps back, one step forward...
My rock moving attire includes a pair of heavy boots, not just for toe protection but they also have heavy tread so my feet don't slip going up the hill. Combined with shorts and shirt that end up being covered with black creek dirt, it is not a pretty picture (another reason to scavenge rocks when my husbands not here)
Thanks for the help, I am definitely going to think about getting some logs for rollers. I'm thinking that I might just need them part of the way where the path is irregular and the rocks tend to get stuck.
One last question, would you want to come to my house and DEMONSTRATE these great techniques? We could split the purse, so to speak.....
Jean
Hi Lee, Please feel free to use any of my suggestions that might help the FAQ section.
One additional tip that may be helpful is the use of a 6"X 6" timber in getting rocks out the ground. Big rocks seem to have an inertia all their own. Add gravity and lots of density and some rocks that seem like they should move just sit there and look at you.
What I am going to describe CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS if not done properly, and anyone who uses this process does so at their own risk. I sometimes use this technique to help get a stubborn rock out of its hole in the ground. I suggest anyone trying this technique for the first time do so on small rocks until they are comfortable with the setup and pull.
Once I have a cable, chain or webbing cradle wrapped around a rock, I then place a strong large timber, like a 6" X 6" X 4'-5' in a vertical position near or next to the rock. I then run the pulling cable or chain from the rock up over the top of the timber and then to the truck hitch or tractor clevis. Often, the timber has to be supported on each side with some shorter boards in order to keep it in an upright position until the pull is started.
The idea here is to create something like a temporary A-frame, but not as elaborate or as difficult to put together. When the pull is started, there is an enormous mechanical advantage provided by the chain going over the timber that adds an upward lifting force as well as an increased force in the direction of the pull. Someplace I read that folks theorize a variation on this theme was used to raise the stones at Stonehenge -- but without a truck or tractor, just people power.
The timber will normally fall forward in the direction of the pull and will fall harmlessly onto the ground as the rock is dislodged. HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN TIMES WHEN THE TIMBER I WAS USING BROKE OR SPLIT IN HALF AND PIECES OF TIMBER FLEW IN SEVERAL DIRECTIONS. FOR THIS REASON ALONE, NOBODY SHOULD STAND ANYWHERE NEAR THE BACK OF THE TRUCK OR TRACTOR ONCE THE PULL IS UNDERWAY. If someone is with me when I use this technique, I insist they either get in the truck with me or stand some distance away IN FRONT OF THE TRUCK where I can see them and they are protected from any flying debris by the body of the truck.
I also use this technique to pull stubborn old fence posts out of the ground.
Hope this helps.
Ed
Hi Jean, My wife always knows when I've been "playin' in the dirt" and she tells me she can't figure out how I get so dirty. I tell her that I just lay down in the dirt and roll around like a cat dusting itself for fleas. She's seldom amused.
To help keep a rock on the plywood you can nail a short 4" x 4" cleat across the back of your "rock tobogan". Drill a hole large enough to put a rope through the cleat near each end of the 4" X 4" cleat. The tobogan idea is really just a narrow variation on the truck-hood sled idea and is more temporary in nature designed to work in tighter places.
You can load your rock from the side onto your tobogan, lash it to the cleat by tying ropes through the holes you drilled in the cleat, and then pull your tobogan from the front. Sometimes I bolt a short piece of 2" X 4" across the front of the tobogan to give strength at the point of the pull.
A hole drilled through the 2" X 4" and the plywood allows a cable or chain to be attached. Sometimes I affix a heavy-duty eye hook or bolt a short (15" - 20") piece of chain together after it has been put through the hole in the front of the tobogan, thereby giving me a small loop of chain to hook my pulling cable or chain to.
When using log rollers, you might start with 5-6 logs, put one in front of the other and as the rock moves forward over the log, remove the log(s) that have just been passed over and put it back in front of the rock. Probably a good idea to cinch up a rope to a tree or other anchor as you move up the hill in order to help stablize the rock while you are messing around with the logs. No need to chase the rock and log back down the hill.
Another thing you might try is to put narrow pieces of plywood flat on the ground and put the log rollers on the plywood. Maybe cut a sheet of plywood in half lengthwise and use each 2' X 4', piece one in front of the other, as you move up the hill. These plywood strips should help spread the weight of the rock over the surface of the plywood and also prevent the logs from digging into the dirt as you move up the incline.
When looking at your steep grade you might think "horizontal" instead of "vertical." And think "snake" instead of "straight." Unless you are moving rocks up from the Ohio River, what I'm suggesting, and it may not be possible in your terrain, is to look for a rock pull path that goes horizontal to the top of your hill and in the direction of the stream for some distance until you can access it with a pulling cable or chain.
In the logging business, you will often see lumbermen use a machine called a skidder to snake logs around obstacles, trees, etc. Very seldom are they able to pull logs in a perfectly straight line through the forest when selectively cutting trees, so they snake the logs out to a level loading point where the logs can then be loaded onto a logging truck. I'm suggesting the same concept here on a smaller scale -- probably without the skidder. But again, it may not be possible in your situation.
How far is it from the stream bed where your rocks are located to the top of the embankment?
Two miles from the stream to the top? Just kidding, just seems like it. I would say it's about 100 feet to a small clearing where it levels out , then about 25 feet in a horizontal path and then another 25 feet where the hill is not as steep and it is clear of trees. Once I get it to the clearing, it's not as big a problem to get it where I need it. Going horizontally before the clearing would be worse because the incline gets much worse, to the point I have to hang onto trees just to walk up it. How straight and regular do the logs need to be? I was thinking of using some of the dead trees that we have laying around. Assuming they aren't too rotten.
Jean
Does anyone have suggestions as to the most effective way to get rocks to heavy to lift, into the bed of a pick-up?
- Posted by: Fireraven9 z5 New Mexico (My Page) on Fri, May 17, 02 at 11:57
Maybe install a Tommy-lift on the back of the truck? I have had good luck using a winch and a ramp also. Really huge rocks should not be carried in most trucks. You will need one with suspension rated for heavy loads. Fireraven9
What potent blood hath modest May. - Ralph W. Emerson
Hey, Ed, I think you should write a book about gardening with rocks, complete with pictures.
Jean, The trash trees that I use have a smooth bark and are all about the same diameter -- 4", 6" or 8" depending on how heavy the stones are that I'm moving.
Here's a tip that you might find useful. If you have a heavy duty wheel barrow, you can lay it on its side, slide a rock into the wheel barrow, go around to the other side of the wheel barrow and pull it upright. Save your back as much as possible. If you are using a large contractor wheel barrow, watch out when you are walking behind the wheel barrow that you don't hit your shins on the cross-piece that is between the legs of the wheel barrow. It hurts.
If you plan on moving lots of rocks from your stream, you might think about mounting a small winch in your clearing and string out 100' of cable to your collection site. Small winches are frequently powered by a 12Volt battery, but you can also get winches that run on house current if you can get a power cord to the winch. One advantage of a 12V winch is that it's mobile and will run off a vehicle battery if necessry. A 12V deep cycle tractor or marine battery is good for such a setup, because deep cycle batteries can be repeatedly recharged many times without harming them.
Of course it can be something of a hassle to connect, charge, and reconnect the battery. Wing-nut battery post connectors make this job easier, and you might mount the battery on its own little sled to make it easier to pull up to the house or garage.
Maybe a winch arrangement would allow you to pull the rocks up to your clearing and then manually wrestle them the remainder of the distance. Just a thought.
Ed
Hi Aquaman, The key word in your question is "effective." The general rule that I use, as well as some experts, is that if two men (people) can't lift a rock, or move it under manual control, then use lifting equipment, or leave the rock where it is.
Rolling or sliding stones up a ramp board onto the bed of a pickup is one of the most common ways to load rocks onto a truck.
Putting a rock in a wheel barrow and pushing the wheel barrow up a strong long ramp board is another approach.
Sometimes I look for a spot where I can back my truck up to an embankment in such a way that the bed of my truck is level with the ground. I may have to put one or two walk boards between the embankment and the bed of my truck. But at least I'm moving the stone level instead of up an incline.
For loading small rocks (<300-400 lbs) I've seen rigs where an angle-iron rack is mounted on the back of a pickup, a winch or come-along is attached in the center of the rack and the rock is pulled up a ramp board onto the bed of the truck. This is similar to what Fireraven mentioned. When loading rocks, I drop the tailgate of my truck completely, so that I am not putting excessive stress on the tailgate hinges.
Small hydraulic booms that use bottle jacks, either manual or electric, and mounted in the rear corner of the truck bed can sometimes be used to lift rocks weighing less than 500 lbs.
It doesn't take many rocks to make up a ton. And it's very easy to overload a pickup and thereby break springs, shackles, and axles. I think I read someplace, that a 4' X 8' pickup load of rocks averaging 8" thick weighs about one ton.
When overloaded, trucks can be very hard to steer and tend to fishtail. Going downhill in the woods with an overloaded truck of rocks and average brakes can equal any theme park ride -- complete with water hazard at the end as the truck goes careening into the river. Overloading a truck in the woods can also result in a truck turning over on uneven and unknown terrain, not to mention getting stuck.
Using extended hydraulic booms mounted on a truck to lift heavy rocks (>500 lbs) should include the use of outriggers. A swinging heavy rock lifted off uneven terrain is a very dangerous object.
I know a professional stone mason who used a wide heavy-duty tripod placed over a rock. The tripod was made from timbers and chained together at the top and a hoist was hooked to the chain. He hoisted the rock, backed his truck between the legs of the tripod and under the suspended rock which he then lowered onto the bed of his truck.
Another person used two trees, anchored a cable between them, hoisted the stone, backed the truck under the suspended stone, and lowered it into the truck. It was clearly evident these pros knew exactly what they were doing and had lots of experience in moving rocks.
At the end of the day, loading rocks onto a truck "effectively" is probably as much about hard work and ingenuity as anything else.
Hi Erasmus, Strange you should mention writing a book, because I am in the process of doing exactly that.
The book will be titled "Practical Garden Solutions" or something similar. It will not be a pretty coffee table book. It will be a utilitarian, dirty fingernails, "how to" book with a focus on practical solutions to many gardening problems.
It will include lots of photos and examples and will be intended as something of a field guide that a person might take with them outside or throw in their vehicle. I envision the book having dirty pages when being used, somethng like my Haynes truck repair manual, dirty and greasy from being used.
If someone is looking for another book about how to fertilize, manicure and prune -- this will not be the book to buy. On the other hand if someone wants instructions on how to build and install a cost-effective drip irrigation system and how to move water to the drip irrigation system when house current isn't available they may want to consider the book.
Other practical solutions will include how to simply and effectively keep ground hogs, rabbits and deer from destroying your garden and doesn't use garlic, hair, soap, or 9' fences. Also included will be thngs like instructions on how to easily remove invasive grape vines, honeysuckle, poison oak, etc. from trees. There will also be a section in the book on how to move rocks, plus many other practical solutions to gardening problems.
A publicaton date hasn't been set, but I'd like to complete the draft next year and have it published in 2004.
Ed
Ed, First of all, please let us know when the book is available. I would be very interested. I have lots of coffee table books so I don't need anymore of those.
Second, can you reccommend a good winch (that sounds kind of fishhy doesn't it?). I would be able to supply power from the house - the clearing is about 50 feet from it.
Lastly, IMHO you live in one of the most beautiful areas of our great country. I grew up in Williamsburg and my grandmother lived in the mountains (Covington, Va). Our summers were blissfully spent either on the beach or in the mountains. The best of both worlds.
Jean
Jean, In my younger days I could have recommended several winches, but now they are all married with children and grandchildren.
On the other hand, there are numerous "power winches" on the market and manufactured by many companies. I'd hesitate to make any brand recommendations, but can suggest a couple of places to look. The winches we are talking about are generally associated with automotive products. Prices are all over the map. I'd guess you could buy them at Sears and may want to make certain a good warranty is included.
To get some idea of what you're looking at, you might look at the Northern Tool website at www.northerntool.com and type in power winch as the keyword search. That will bring up a couple of examples of ATV 1500 lb winches. Also, if you type in crane as the keyword search, you will get a couple of examples of pickup truck cranes that I mentioned in a previous response that one might use to lift rocks onto trucks.
On eBay, if you search on power winch you'll get a lot of responses, but be careful about buying a poorly made cheap import that has no manufacturer warranty or guarantee.
Yes, we are indeed fortunate to live in this beautiful part of the country where every day is just another ho-hum day in paradise. We never have to go on vacation, because we live on the postcard.
Hope this info is useful.
Ed
Thank you to everyone for all these great ideas. I have printed this thread for my DH's reading enjoyment. I have even underlined in yellow the safety suggestions to make them easier for him to find. He manages to seriously injure himself with each new venture (Makita screw driver drilled the tip of his finger last week)and I can see the possibilities with our 20 ton of rock and boulders to move this spring- building a pond. I will need the winch info to remove the boulder he will surely land under. Thanks.
Juley
Wow, and I thought I moved some serious rocks. Edward is the master! Another safety suggestion, which I almost found out the hard way: Big rocks rolling down hill on logs are not equipped with brakes. Once you get them moving, you can't stop them. I rolled one downhill to put on the edge of my pond, and fortunately it fell off the last log almosts perfectly in place. A little farther and I would have been figuring on how to get a 1700 lb rock out of my pond!
Also, a wreck bar comes in real handy. It's a heavy steel bar with a chisel point. No human alive has the strength to bend or break it, therefore you can really pry hard to get big rocks out of the ground, up on logs, etc. Shovel handles break easily.
I have to agree with the come-along issue. It would take forever to move a big rock any distance with one. On the other hand, they're great for making minor position adjustments in areas you can't use the wreck bar.
Oh, another thing. If you ever have a load delivered with a forklift, make sure your backyard is dried out real good after a rain. Those all-terrain forklifts can get stuck really easy. I had to pull one out of my lawn with a chain and my truck. What a terrible mess.
Safety is everything. I hope someone adds safe lifting (with your legs, straight back) to the FAQ. Even the small stuff can hurt your back if you lift incorrectly.
Edward, I am so, so impressed. Can I send by dh for lessons?
I use a Crane - or a Excavator with a thumb attachment
the only thing that suffers in my chequebookHere is a link that might be useful: large rocks................
Oh my....
Oh my oh my oh my.......
Oh my oh my oh my oh my .........(Did you hear my chin hit the keyboard?)
Jean, I'm just a beginner at moving and building with rocks. However, there is a true professional who lives a few miles north of me. His name is Charles "Mac" McRaven and he is a very highly respected stone mason, blacksmith and log builder.
Mac has written several excellent books on stonework and building with stone. I have all of Mac's books and many of my techniques were learned from Mac's books, plus my own experience. I highly recommend Mac's books for anyone who is serious about working with stone. His writings ring true with the knowledge and understanding that only comes from real hands-on experience.
There certainly are many good stone masons in the country, but in my opinion Mac is a cut above most of the others. I've met him and I've seen numerous examples of his work. He is a practical person and his work is of the highest order.
Mac is a very active man, but he does conduct "hands on" workshops. He owns McRaven Restorations and has a website at www.charlesmacraven.com and the house on the website home page is Mac's house and he personally built that house by himself.
A schedule of his workshops is on his website. It used to be that when you took his stone building class that you would go out in the field and learn first hand how to collect and move the stones that would be used in building something.
So Jean, if you want to get dh into taking lessons, you might give Mac's classes a try. In fact, women take his classes and learn to build with stone. Some women take his classes to learn how things should be done correctly and then use their newly acquired skills to control stonework being done on a new home or some other project.
Hope this helps.
Ed
- Posted by: Fireraven9 z5 New Mexico (My Page) on Tue, May 21, 02 at 13:56
OMG! You have met him? We have Building With Stone and learned a great deal from it. It is one of the books in the book list we are creating. I almost wish I lived closer so I could take the workshops. Fireraven9
What potent blood hath modest May. - Ralph W. Emerson
Fireraven9 Yes, Mac did me the courtesy of visting our farm several years ago. We are restoring an antique farmstead. The house was built in 1891, and a lot of stone was used in building the house and out buildings.
Our house has seven fireplaces and when I asked my DW how many she wanted restored, of course she said, "All of them." Never should have asked the question. Anyhow, we had them all internally restored to meet code. That was a mess you wouldn't believe. Anyhow, we had Mac look at several potential projects, including one of the exterior house chimneys, a chimney on the summer kitchen, and a couple of stone walls. If all goes well, I plan to use his company to do the work in a couple of years.
He's a very nice man and a real professional. If you have the opportunity to visit some of the various sites around the country where he has done work, it is well worth your time.
Ed
- Posted by: david7a_ga z7a GA (My Page) on Tue, May 28, 02 at 17:24
I just work a little with rock. I've been working by myself and with no power equipment, so I don't take anything I can't move by myself. One of the most useful things I've found for this small scale work is an 8 foot long 2x8 board with a pair of small diameter PVC pipes nailed onto one of the wide sides. I roll a rock onto it, then just slide it along the PVC to the other end. Adding the PVC to the board cuts the friction tremendously. Works on soft ground and as a ramp for loading. The heaviest stone I've moved this way was probably about 300 pounds.
