Conscripts shoot their own officers rather than fight

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March 22, 2003

From Tom Newton Dunn with 40 Commando near al-Faw, southern Iraq

IRAQI conscripts shot their own officers in the chest yesterday to avoid a fruitless fight over the oil terminals at al-Faw. British soldiers from 40 Commando’s Charlie Company found a bunker full of the dead officers, with spent shells from an AK47 rifle around them.

Stuck between the US Seals and the Royal Marines, whom they did not want to fight, and a regime that would kill them if they refused, it was the conscripts’ only way out.

In total, 40 Commando had collected more than 100 prisoners of war yesterday from the few square miles of the al-Faw peninsula that they controlled. Two of them were a general in the regular Iraqi Army and a brigadier. They came out from the command bunker where they had been hiding after 40 Commando’s Bravo Company fired two anti-tank missiles into it. With them was a large sports holdall stuffed with money. They insisted that they had been about to pay their troops, to the disbelief of their captors.

These were the men who had left their soldiers hungry, poorly armed and almost destitute for weeks, judging by the state we had seen them in, while appearing to keep the money for themselves.

It was only as dawn broke that the 900 Royal Marine commandos, who had moved forward during the night, realised the pitiful shape of the enemy. The first white flag was hoisted by three soldiers in a trench just outside the complex’s north gate, which had been surrounded by heavy machinegunners from Command Company.

They were taken prisoner by Corporal Fergus Gask, 26, who may have accepted the first surrender of the war. “We started engaging their positions with GPMGs (general purpose machineguns) when I noticed this white flag go up,” he said. “I didn’t know whether it was a trick or not, but I approached the trench anyway, probably a pretty silly thing to do if I think about it.

“But as soon as I saw their faces I knew they were genuine. They actually looked very relieved they didn’t have to fight any more. And they became very pleased to see us when they realised we weren’t going to do them any harm.”

The dawn light appeared to have provoked an exodus.

Small groups of dishevelled Iraqis were standing up all around us with their hands in the air, or with a dirty white T-shirt tied to a stick waving above them. Every time you turned around, a new trickle of silhouettes emerged from the horizon walking slowly towards us. One Marine joked: “Oh no. They’re surrendering at us from all sides.”

Each prisoner was thoroughly searched before he was accepted into captivity in a procedure that the commandos had clearly practised many times. The injured were quickly treated and a handful received almost immediate helicopter evacuation from the oil terminal to HMS Ocean, where a temporary hospital for PoWs has been set up.

As a new day began, so did the Marines’ gradual expansion outwards into the large expanse of waste ground that is still pockmarked with shell craters from the Iran-Iraq War.To save them having to translate from Arabic maps, 40 Commando named the clear paths they had established or wanted to seize with London street names: Downing Street, Abbey Road or Fulham Road.

Engineers, meanwhile, began the work of shutting down the many oil pipeline valves.

This is a pooled dispatch for the British press

Conscripts shoot their own officers rather than fight London Times - UK, by Tom Newton Dunn

Original Article

Posted By:ID10T, 3/21/2003 7:47:15 PM

IRAQI conscripts shot their own officers in the chest yesterday to avoid a fruitless fight over the oil terminals at al-Faw. British soldiers from 40 Commando’s Charlie Company found a bunker full of the dead officers, with spent shells from an AK47 rifle around them.

Comments:

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Reply 1 - Posted by: Deldad, 3/21/2003 7:51:24 PM Really s*cks to be on Saddam's side doesn't it?

Reply 2 - Posted by: mrrabbit, 3/21/2003 7:54:25 PM Quote: One Marine joked: “Oh no. They’re surrendering at us from all sides.” Now that is a hilarious statement... =8-)

Reply 3 - Posted by: thumbss5, 3/21/2003 7:56:59 PM Corporal Fergus Gask, 26, who may have accepted the first surrender of the war... ...including a general and a brigadeer. Is this a great country or what?

Reply 4 - Posted by: Landshark, 3/21/2003 7:57:38 PM It is a form of force multiplication if your enemy kills his own men.

Reply 5 - Posted by: jnorv, 3/21/2003 8:00:09 PM This is not going to make the Dims happy.

Reply 6 - Posted by: PayThePiper, 3/21/2003 8:05:19 PM FoxNews was interviewing two US Marines just inside the Iraq border today. One of them was openly laughing at how easy the conquest has been thus far, and said hello to his family, told them not to worry, "I'll be home soon." All of this through smiles and laughter. But be ever vigilant, Marines. We want ALL you back home soon. Semper Fi.

Reply 7 - Posted by: Ceci, 3/21/2003 8:05:50 PM They took my advice. Good!

Reply 8 - Posted by: esgaroth, 3/21/2003 8:06:05 PM I feel a really obnoxious and days long chuckle beginning...right from the belly... hee hee hee hee....

Reply 9 - Posted by: Joe Friday, 3/21/2003 8:06:19 PM Great news! Dashole is a dumb wimp and needs to be sucking up sand in Iraq!

Reply 10 - Posted by: jglas, 3/21/2003 8:25:27 PM The way these guys surrender, no wonder the French love them.

Reply 11 - Posted by: eliza, 3/21/2003 8:29:22 PM Geniuses! IRAQI conscripts shot their own officers in the chest yesterday Good work, fellas. You chose well.

Reply 12 - Posted by: nightvision, 3/21/2003 8:30:56 PM Don't lets get too giddy with the 'success' so far. I won't relax until it's over, preferably with Saddam's head on a stick. And I hope the allied forces don't let down their guard for one second, lest they be ambushed by who-knows-what. Stay the course.

Reply 13 - Posted by: Ida Lil, 3/21/2003 8:35:42 PM Wrong headline -- it should have said Iraqi conscripts turn freedom fighters. Freedom sometimes means turning on your oppressor and shooting them. I hope those two theives are held for war crimes.

Reply 14 - Posted by: sugarbear, 3/21/2003 8:35:49 PM Why do I get the idea that many Dems will be disappointed to learn that this is about Iraquis rather than Americans?

Reply 15 - Posted by: valleystorm, 3/21/2003 8:37:54 PM Truly, this is a war of liberation and compassion. And clearly, the American and British troops are singularly prepared to fight this war. Thank God, there are no stupid Frenchmen, Germans, et al, on these battlefields. They would not know how to fight nor how to comport themselves toward the surrendering Iraqis.

Reply 16 - Posted by: Liberty7, 3/21/2003 8:39:30 PM Assuming the general's bag of money was stolen troop pay, it is too bad that the "Freedom Fighters" didn't get to them first. One other aspect of knocking off the officers, I believe, is that they are probably Sunni while the troops are Shia.

Reply 17 - Posted by: mkjessup, 3/21/2003 8:51:46 PM If I thought they could be trusted, I would be tempted to suggest that some of these more creative Iraqi soldiers be handed BACK their AK-47s and given field ranks of Buck Private in the U.S. Army, and told they are now part of 'Operation Iraqi Freedom'. Yes, I know -- bad idea. But I'm sure there are some Iraqi conscripts who would gladly salute, turn, and attack their tormentors in Baghdad!

Reply 18 - Posted by: Mo Gumbo, 3/21/2003 8:52:23 PM Uh oh, more bad news for Saddam's thugs. 70% of Baghdad's population is also Shia.

Reply 19 - Posted by: Humonster, 3/21/2003 8:54:50 PM What I really want to see is an ''El Duce'' moment with the Iraqi populace dragging the bodies of Saddam and his cronies through the streets of Bagdad. That would REALLY annoy the lefties.

Reply 20 - Posted by: Society Dweller, 3/21/2003 8:55:25 PM Good job. They were offered the option of surrenduring many times over, but the loyalist officers paid the price with a one way ticket to Paradise. The conscripts involved have a good movie deal if they play their cards right.

Reply 21 - Posted by: Roverjo, 3/21/2003 8:59:33 PM That's also the way the Russian Revolution, which enabled Stalin & Trotsky to take over Russia, started. Be careful of what you approve of.

Reply 22 - Posted by: Sully, 3/21/2003 9:01:16 PM Personally I am *shocked* and *awed*.

Reply 23 - Posted by: amereagle, 3/21/2003 9:03:56 PM 17, How'bout putting them in the First Platoon of a new thing called the Pax Americana Liberators then? We give them back an AK47 for one hand and an Arabic copy of the Constitution and Bill of Rights for the other. I'm serious.

Reply 24 - Posted by: retirednavy92, 3/21/2003 9:06:59 PM I bet Hollyweird is freaking right now.

Reply 25 - Posted by: pub_crawler, 3/21/2003 9:14:38 PM Maybe this blowing away of superior officers will flow right up the Iraqi hierarchy like the Mexican Wave at a ballgame.

Reply 26 - Posted by: Dems R Dumm, 3/21/2003 9:17:04 PM The French military commanders are just a little worried about someone finding an even better way to remove all obstacles to surrendering. Somewhere in Swe' Pari' a general is saying something like, "we better outlaw this way of surrendering or the people who know how to surrender won't be given a chance to surrender." Would the term "military leader" be considered an oxymoron in France?!

Reply 27 - Posted by: veritas, 3/21/2003 9:18:14 PM Not free enough with those 3-day passes, eh?

Reply 28 - Posted by: JemMAC, 3/21/2003 9:25:35 PM Man, the Brits are REALLY making it hard for this Irishwoman to hold on to her life-long grudge against all things English . . . I mean, how great is it that Alliance troops are rolling to the rescue down "Abbey Road" and "Downing Street"?!? Looks like that planned trip to Paris is going to become a trip to London ...

Reply 29 - Posted by: Standing Wolf, 3/21/2003 9:27:37 PM Tiny Tom weeps.

Reply 30 - Posted by: No Left Turns, 3/21/2003 9:28:22 PM The democratic party leadership better hope the party faithful don't take note that there is a way to take back their party.

Reply 31 - Posted by: dainbred, 3/21/2003 9:30:44 PM I don't know how, but somewhere in Iraq there must have been alot of French influence....

Reply 32 - Posted by: truthshallsetyoufree, 3/21/2003 9:49:06 PM I think we should have an LDot convention in London when this is over.

Reply 33 - Posted by: eliza, 3/21/2003 9:57:22 PM Actually, I hate to see comparisons of French surrendering to Nazi forces TO Iraqi conscripts surrendering to Allied forces. There is something of a false parallel inherent in such comparisons.

Reply 34 - Posted by: KCSTAN, 3/21/2003 9:57:35 PM So these WMD, Chemical and Biological weapons are where? As I have always said Iraq was a defeated, powerless, toothless tiger with a loud mouth dictator before we attacked. While Iraq was never a real threat, it is best that he is now gone. God bless our troops, they did what they were asked to do. The question of why is for voters in the next elections.

Reply 35 - Posted by: Foggybottom, 3/21/2003 9:59:34 PM Drawing some rather large conclusions from insufficient information aren't you there sport?

Reply 36 - Posted by: Hobbiest, 3/21/2003 10:01:06 PM I suppose the prior poster would be happier if tens of thousands of people were choking on gas fumes right now?

Reply 37 - Posted by: Hazymac, 3/21/2003 10:10:03 PM Very logical people, these Iraqi soldiers. Faced with the Royal Marines on one side, the Navy SEALs on the other, and their officers yelling in their ears, they chose to turn their AK47s on their superiors. Call it a godly fragging. Their hero is George Bush. But this war isn't over yet. Our forces need to keep their wits about them and expect the unexpected. Some of the enemy will fight and must be dealt with expeditiously. The war won't be over until we've crawled through every nook and cranny of Saddam's murder factory and learned the truth about his regime's involvement with France, Germany, Russia, and others.

Reply 38 - Posted by: Pam Torson, 3/21/2003 10:19:40 PM My teen-age son and I are having a blast discussing this, esp #2's comment. My son says, ''Mr Hussein, can I join your army?'' I replied in a 'Hussein' voice ''My people are so loyal, they want to be the first to meet the enemy.'' A little levity is nice in this situation, I'm sure the soldiers (or their authority) are fully aware that there may be difficulties ahead, despite ease of first couple of days.

Reply 39 - Posted by: WyoEagle, 3/21/2003 10:40:42 PM Gonna change a tad when we get to the outskirts of Baghdad. It ain't over til it's over. Breeeeliant strateegery. God protect ya fellas.

Reply 40 - Posted by: ShannonM, 3/21/2003 10:44:21 PM So these WMD, Chemical and Biological weapons are where? #34: Jeez, the battle is less than 72 hours old and already you want all the evidence displayed??? I wish you were more impatient when the UN inspectors took 12 years to casually make pre-arranged visits to Saddam-approved weapon sites. Patience, young grasshoppper, patience...

Reply 41 - Posted by: fb2002, 3/21/2003 10:46:43 PM Why is it, to echo others on this tread, do I get the impression that the criminal liberal media are disappointed that the war effort is going well? How twisted are they? Our nations sons and daughters are in harms way, doing an unbelieveable job, and our "elite" media is covering anti-war protesters. It just makes me sick to my stomach! I WILL CRAWL OVER BROKEN GLASS TO VOTE REPBULICAN FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!

Reply 42 - Posted by: MsFalconersCabanaBoy, 3/21/2003 10:46:52 PM #40 -- I'm going to have to put the tin foil back in my hat, if you're going to keep reading my mind like that.

Reply 43 - Posted by: ring_wraith, 3/21/2003 10:53:35 PM This is an ROTC program that is difficult to sell.

Reply 44 - Posted by: nofreelunch, 3/21/2003 10:58:53 PM What happened to fighting to the death to kill all western infidels ? This kinda puts the Wahabbi / PLO mindset in perspective as to what lunatics they are.

Reply 45 - Posted by: tantric, 3/21/2003 10:59:58 PM They are surrendering 'vichy french' style.

Reply 46 - Posted by: Deep Purple, 3/21/2003 11:06:51 PM I suppose I could say this on any war thread, but I have been listening to ABC radio for the last 3 hours and this event has not been mentioned once. However, partisan stories and remarks have abounded. And these mediots wonder why they don't get no respect.

Reply 47 - Posted by: Give Me Freedom, 3/21/2003 11:07:09 PM #41, Simple answer, they, like all good socialists, Hate our president, and anything Republican. Why you may ask? For one simple reason, Republicans hold on to the cherished ideal of personal responsibility, and a large number of them are Christians. Both of these things truly enrages the committed and uncommitted Socialist. They have sold their soul to the dark side. Many of them are truly selfish, hateful, and evil people.

Reply 48 - Posted by: Dimpled Darling, 3/21/2003 11:07:41 PM The dems. are stewing and reporters are choking on their contempt of our president! How delicious. However, I agree, it's not over yet and zealots will be zealots. Our men need to be vigilant at all times in Iraq. BTW, I'm so proud of our military and the strategies of this war. The administration should be commended as they obviously are concerning about civilian safety - despite what the media and the 'protestors' would have you believe. To the families of our men overseas I say be thankful this is not the Vietnamese War you sons are fighting. I pray for the souls of the killed in Iraq and the safety of the Coalition but I am grateful that this hi-tech war has so far produced few fatalities. Small comfort, I know, for those families who lost their loved ones but they do not grieve alone.

Reply 49 - Posted by: ragu, 3/21/2003 11:13:43 PM #34 The answer to your question is: Just where Hussein hid them.

Reply 50 - Posted by: PenDragon, 3/21/2003 11:42:34 PM ''So these WMD, Chemical and Biological weapons are where?'' Don't get your jockies in a twist - the Republican Guard will no doubt shell our guys with Chems outside of Bagdad! PS If you lefties keep up the tactics that you seem to be rapidly turning too, you may will become an endangered species - Americans have about had enough of you wrapping yourselves in The Bill of Rights to try to destroy America.

Reply 51 - Posted by: Col Bill, 3/21/2003 11:42:35 PM I am not overly familiar with Iraq's Uniform Code of Military Justice, but this could be a court martial offense.

Reply 52 - Posted by: vivavoce, 3/21/2003 11:45:39 PM I'm trying not to get too cocky until we find out what's waiting for us in Baghdad...

Reply 53 - Posted by: Allegra, 3/21/2003 11:52:05 PM Agree w/ #52. Let's not get too overconfident. I am worried that Hussein is already out of Iraq, that our guys could be thinking it too easy and be lead into an ambush. It ain't over til it's over.

Reply 54 - Posted by: radrelic, 3/21/2003 11:52:27 PM "So these WMD, Chemical and Biological weapons are where?" In your backyard? There are three ships that set sail from Iraq which are traveling in circles on the ocean incommunicado. What is in them?

Reply 55 - Posted by: lagunatic, 3/21/2003 11:58:34 PM Heard on the radio KNX Los Angeles tonight that an entire regiment of 8000 surrendered today! Some of them have gotten the message! Keep your eyes and ears open boys, we want you ALL home safe & sound! Safe is better than quick!

Reply 56 - Posted by: Magneto, 3/22/2003 12:11:26 AM As far as what lies ahead for our Liberating forces. I'm utterly confident that they have ample forces necessary to handle the Iraqi forces they will confront in the next 36 hours. Just look at how the army handled the Iraqi Republican Guard in 1991! They annihilated them without losses. The kill ratio was phenomenal! Expect the same in the coming engagement.

Reply 57 - Posted by: Nan, 3/22/2003 12:40:34 AM Really sad that shooting their own officers was the only way to not be killed fighting to save the son of Satan and his get.

Reply 58 - Posted by: SJU_IN_DAYTON, 3/22/2003 12:47:13 AM WMD: Will Miss Dashle

Reply 59 - Posted by: blood, 3/22/2003 1:12:28 AM Post #2 reminds me of a funny quote:

Reply 60 - Posted by: Peaches, 3/22/2003 1:27:15 AM Hey, #58: WMD -- WON'T Miss Daschle!

Reply 61 - Posted by: TheDukeOfEarl, 3/22/2003 1:57:22 AM Re. #23: amereagle Good idea. Did you email the pentagon? I'm not kidding either. Although to be honest, I'd be surprised if they hadn't considered the possibility. Mostly it would be dramatics, but I admit good dramatics. I suspect these are neither professional or very disciplined troops. It might be a supervision problem.

Reply 62 - Posted by: Pinchem, 3/22/2003 2:33:29 AM Just had a weird thought. Imagine if there were French Troops there and facing Iraqi troops, both waving white flags! I need more coffee.

Reply 63 - Posted by: ShannonM, 3/22/2003 2:36:33 AM I'm going to have to put the tin foil back in my hat, if you're going to keep reading my mind like that. Just remember, the shiny side should face outward... ;)

Reply 64 - Posted by: barbill4, 3/22/2003 3:00:50 AM No. 42, You must keep the tinfoil helmet firmly placed upon your head at all times. It is the only defense we have against the incoming from skeptical and/or negative ideas. I have added a second layer of aluminum foil to the cardboard bunker. It helps. Somebody on Fox, Bret Baer, said US sources said they have pics of saddam being put on a stretcher and stuffed into an ambulance, so the poster who wants his head might have a chance to get it.

Reply 65 - Posted by: tantric, 3/22/2003 3:05:34 AM Iraq is so over... now what about Iran and its russian built nuclear reactor(s)..... Iran and its mullah's will have nukes within one year.... Its a stone cold fact. Oh what will 'dubya' do now.. ? ;)